Are the Hadiths About the Lord Sitting on the Kursi and the Creaking Sound Authentic?
Question: The questioner says, Some people gave me these two hadiths, and I would like to know, are they authentic or not? The first, A woman came to the Prophet ﷺ and asked him to supplicate to Allah to admit her into Paradise. The Prophet ﷺ magnified the Lord and said, “Indeed His Kursī encompasses the heavens and the earth, and He sits upon it, and there remains from it only the space of four fingers,” and he gestured with his fingers, “and it creaks like the creaking of a new saddle when it is mounted due to its weight.” This is mentioned in Bayān Talbīs al-Jahmiyyah, volume 3, page 261. The second, It is narrated from ʿUmar ibn al-Khaṭṭāb, may Allah be pleased with him, that a woman came to the Prophet ﷺ and said, Supplicate to Allah that He admits me into Paradise. He ﷺ said, “Indeed His Kursī encompasses the heavens and the earth, and when the Lord sits upon the Kursī a creaking sound is heard like the creaking of a new saddle due to its weight.” It has been said that this hadith was narrated by al-Bazzār, and that its narrators are the narrators of the Ṣaḥīḥ.
Summary:
The two hadiths mentioned are not established as authentic when attributed to the Prophet ﷺ with a sound chain. There is objection regarding their attribution to the Prophet ﷺ. However, the basic meaning concerning the greatness of the Kursī is established by the text of the Quran and by authentic narrations from the Companions, especially the narration of Ibn Masʿūd, may Allah be pleased with him. The creed of the Salaf is to affirm what is established in the texts without asking how, without likening, and without distorted interpretation.
Answer:
First, from the Quran and the authentic Sunnah
Allah the Most High said
From the Qur'an:
- Surah al-Baqarah 2:255
His Seat encompasses the heavens and the earth,
This is a definitive text affirming the Kursī and explaining its greatness, without describing its nature. As for the authentic Sunnah, it is reported as a statement of ʿAbdullāh ibn Masʿūd, may Allah be pleased with him, that he said “The seven heavens compared to the Kursī are nothing but like a ring thrown into a vast desert.” This narration is authentic in its chain, and the scholars accepted it, and it is one of the most well known narrations used as evidence in this matter.
From the Sunnah:
- Abū al-Shaykh in al-ʿAẓamah (2/587)Abū Dharr (رضي الله عنه) said:
I heard the Messenger of Allah ﷺ say: “The Kursī in relation to the Throne is nothing but like an iron ring thrown into the middle of a vast desert of the earth.”
(3) Authentic. The previous source. This is through the route of Ibn Wahb, who said: Ibn Zayd said regarding His statement: “His Kursī extends over the heavens and the earth.” Ibn Zayd said: My father narrated to me, saying: … It was also reported by Abū al-Shaykh in al-ʿAẓamah (2/587). Shaykh al-Albānī authenticated it in Sharḥ al-ʿAqīdah al-Ṭaḥāwiyyah (p. 312) from the ḥadīth of Abū Dharr, with the wording: “I heard the Messenger of Allah ﷺ say: ‘The Kursī in relation to the Throne is nothing but like a ring of iron thrown into the middle of a vast desert of the earth.’”
Second, discussion of the two hadiths mentioned The two hadiths that mention the Lord sitting on the Kursī and the creaking like the creaking of a saddle have been reported with chains that contain weakness and irregularity, and they are not authentically established from the Prophet ﷺ. For this reason Several scholars of hadith said that attributing them to the Prophet ﷺ is not authentic. The scholars of hadith mentioned that some of their chains contain objectionable elements. What is reported from al-Bazzār that its narrators are the narrators of the Ṣaḥīḥ does not necessarily mean the hadith is authentic, because the defect may be in interruption, contradiction, or irregularity, not merely in the reliability of the narrators. For this reason the authors of the six books did not include it, and the early scholars of hadith criticism did not authenticate it.
Third, the position of the Salaf regarding the attributes The righteous Salaf, may Allah have mercy on them, affirm what is established in the Quran and the authentic Sunnah, affirming its existence and meaning, not affirming how and not making resemblance.
From the Salaf:
- Imam Mālik, may Allah have mercy on him, said regarding the verse of rising above the Throne
“The rising is known, the how is unknown, believing in it is obligatory, and asking about it is an innovation.”
Therefore what is established with authentic text is affirmed, and what is not established is not attributed to the Prophet ﷺ, while believing that Allah the Most High is greater and more exalted than to be compared to His creation or likened to them.
From the Scholars:
- Shaykh al-Islām Ibn Taymiyyah said regarding such narrations
If they are authentic they are transmitted as they came without asking how and without resemblance, and if they are not authentic the religion is not made dependent upon them, and it is sufficient to rely on what is authentically established in the texts.
Additional detailed discussion about the two narrations First The creaking of the Throne is mentioned in the Hadith of al-Awʿāl, narrated by Abū Dāwūd.
From the Sunnah:
- Sunan Abī Dāwūd: 4726Narrated by Jubayr ibn Muṭʿim, may Allah be pleased with him:
“The Prophet ﷺ said, ‘Indeed His Throne is above His heavens like this,’ and he gestured with his fingers like a dome over it, ‘and it creaks like the creaking of a saddle when it is ridden.’”
This hadith is weak, and it was declared weak by al-Albānī and others.
Also reported by ʿAbdullāh ibn Aḥmad in al-Sunnah (585) from ʿAbdullāh ibn Khalīfah from ʿUmar, may Allah be pleased with him, who said “When the Lord sits upon the Kursī, a creaking is heard like the creaking of a new saddle.” It was also reported in the narration of ʿAbdullāh ibn Khalīfah that a woman came to the Prophet ﷺ and asked him to supplicate for her to enter Paradise, then he mentioned the statement about the Kursī and the creaking sound. It was reported by Ibn Jarīr al-Ṭabarī in Tafsīr al-Ṭabarī (1/111) al-Dārimī in al-Radd ʿalā Bishr al-Marīsī, page 47 Aḥmad in al-Sunnah, page 17 All of them through the route of Isrāʾīl from Abū Isḥāq from ʿAbdullāh ibn Khalīfah in a mursal form. The hadith has been narrated both as raised and as stopped. Some scholars criticized it because of inconsistency in the chain and text. Ibn Kathīr said “Some narrate it from ʿUmar as a statement of a Companion, some narrate it as mursal, some add strange wording, and some remove it.” Tafsīr Ibn Kathīr, 1/310 ʿAbdullāh ibn Khalīfah, around whom the narration revolves, was only declared reliable by Ibn Ḥibbān, and al-Dhahabī said he is hardly known, therefore the hadith is also weak. The word aṭīṭ refers to the sound made by saddles and riding equipment when weight presses upon them. Lisān al-ʿArab, volume 1 page 92. Al-Dhahabī said in al-ʿUluw, pages 44 to 45 “This is a very strange hadith. Ibn Isḥāq is reliable in the Maghāzī when he narrates with a chain, but he has strange narrations. Allah knows best whether the Prophet ﷺ said this or not.” He also clarified that the creaking mentioned relates to the Throne itself, not to Allah. Second Ahl al-Sunnah do not affirm the word “body” for Allah and do not deny it as a term. The word “body” has been used in four meanings A physical body or flesh Something composed of matter and form, as stated by philosophers Something composed of multiple substances, as stated by the Ashʿarīs Something that exists independently and can be pointed to The first three meanings are false regarding Allah. The fourth meaning is correct in meaning, but the word itself is not used because it is not reported in revelation. Therefore accusing Ahl al-Sunnah of anthropomorphism is false and a fabrication.
From the Salaf:
- Abū Ḥātim al-Rāzī said
“The sign of the people of innovation is attacking the people of narrations.”
Reported by al-Lālikāʾī in Sharḥ Uṣūl Iʿtiqād Ahl al-Sunnah, volume 1 pages 197 to 201.
The two hadiths mentioned are not authentic when attributed to the Prophet ﷺ and it is not permissible to attribute them to him with certainty. The greatness of the Kursī is established by the text of the Quran and authentic narrations from the Companions. The creed of the Salaf is to affirm what is authentically established without asking how and without resemblance, and to refrain regarding what is not established, while declaring Allah free from resemblance to His creation. And Allah knows best. May Allah send prayers and peace upon our Prophet Muhammad, and upon his family and companions.
And Allah knows best.
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